02.10.07
Posted in Personal Topics, Scion at 4:18 am by Tomas
To continue the discussion begun in my last post, one of the other folks commenting at an enthusiast’s site has direct contact with some of the officials at Scion. She communicated to them the basics of my thoughts about their abandoning the “City Car” niche in the United States. The reply from those Scion folks was that the Scion xD was the model that was directly carrying forward the City Car idea, and would replace the xB Classic in that niche. This is the xD:
and this is the xB Classic it is allegedly “replacing” in the “City Car” niche:
Note especially in these views the tremendous difference in the rear hatch sizes, and the height of the cargo and passenger areas. The vehicles are similar in length and width.
I responded to the idea that the xD would fill the niche vacated by the xB Classic as follows:
Well, that’s nice, but the “space efficiency” of the xD is NOT the same as the space efficiency of the xB Classic: The rear hatch and load space are much more limiting than on the xB Classic. The xD is a very nice compact hatchback, but there is NOT any way it is as easy to load, nor can it handle the bulky items that the xB swallows without complaint.
Also, the driver/passenger access is much poorer on the xD. Yet another crouch-to-enter small car.
(And can anyone imagine trying to do a wheelchair conversion similar to the Braun Rampvan conversion of the xB on the xD? That is one very clear, very solid example of the difference in usable interior space on a similar footprint.)
I repeat, “There is nothing on the current US market from any manufacturer with the same space efficiency as the now discontinued Scion xB. Nothing. There are no equivalent City Cars available here.”
Thanks for asking them, though, I guess they don’t understand what a magnificent design the xB Classic was for usable space in a tiny vehicle, and in turn do NOT understand that they have abandoned that niche and those customers. 🙁
Another commenter said
Tom think of it this way, IMO…for anyone to espouse that the “car they want next” is even “heard” by a manufacturer sets you apart from 99.0% of the rest of the planet….you folk have an impact on what comes next. As much as you’d like to deny it….scionlife can dictate model changes….they may just be model changes you functionally fixated folk have a tough time swallowing.
My response:
No, I fully understand that the “new xB” is a direct result of the designers paying very close attention to all the folks who were pleading with Scion to change specific things about the xB Classic. It is absolutely amazing how closely they followed their vociferous customer’s “demands.”
What may have fallen through the cracks, though, or at least fell below the threshold of being actively noticed, is the even larger group who DIDN’T demand those changes – those who were essentially saying by their silence that the now discontinued Scion vehicles were very appreciated and met their needs and desires.
If *I* were to have been asked what changes I would like to see in the xB Classic, mine would have been very simple and direct: Cruise control, side airbags, and slightly more substantial front and rear pieces that could withstand having another car gently bumping or brushing against them in parallel parking – without damage.
I’m one of the silent ones who did NOT find fault with the original, because 99 and 44/100ths percent of it fully met my needs and desires.
I wouldn’t be one to say don’t innovate – innovation is one of Scion’s strong points, innovation and taking chances.
I fully believe that the new xB2 station wagon will be a strong seller, and will have an avid following: It is a well designed, well put together vehicle specifically designed to answer to the customer’s desires. Same for the new xD.
Neither one, however, is a continuation of the City Car theme first introduced to this country with the Scion xB Classic. Tiny car, tiny engine, massive interior space, sophisticated simplicity (minimalism), and undeniably form-follows-function VERY MUCH OVER form-follows-fashion.
Yes, the xD, for example, may have been intended to be a follow-on design for the City Car theme, but each and every extra curve and flowing line added, subtracts from the utility and usability of the vehicle in the City Car functions.
Rounded sides, top, rear, and hatch opening? Reduction in usable interior space, even with the same size exterior. A one foot cube holds MUCH more than a one foot sphere even though both take the same size storage niche (parking space).
Exterior curves placed solely for styling tend to make doors and other panels thicker, thereby also increasing the difference between usable interior space and required exterior space.
The real beauty of the xB Classic was that the required exterior space was essentially the usable interior space plus only mechanical and safety required space. No corners trimmed off for looks and lost to utility.
The original xB was a brutally unapologetic, efficient vehicle, and sophisticated well beyond what most can appreciate. There are a lot of very subtle things going on inside those flat panels that make it a pleasing and reliable little box on wheels.
The xB2 is the redesign of that concept up into a totally different class of vehicle, to meet the expressed desires of the loudest 10 percent of those who either bought the box and found it wanting, or who refused to buy the box and said why. I doubt the silent 90 percent wanted their beloved boxes to morph into tC station wagons.
I wish the xB2 buyers all the best, and feel confident that they will be getting a very fine vehicle priced way below what it could be. I’m sure that Scion will listen to them also, as their vehicle matures and changes. The xB3 will reflect the changes the dissatisfied xB2 owners demand. 🙂
Scion is doing an amazing job of listening and changing, in this instance it may be their customers who failed. 🙁 Only those with complaints seem to have said anything at all. Either from a lack of belief that anything we said would count, or simple apathy, the rest of us were silent. For whatever reason the (I believe) majority who appreciated their beloved boxes for what they were, didn’t make ourselves known.
It could be HOW the questions were asked: The questions were always “What should we change?” or “What would you change?” The questions never seemed to be “What under NO circumstances should be changed?” 🙁
Always the focus was “What did we get wrong?” never “What did we get right?”
What happened was that 95% of those things ostensibly “wrong” were corrected in the new design, which is absolutely fantastic! 😀 Thing is, it also meant some of the really great things they got right were lost. 🙁
The xB2 and xD look to be great cars, and should propel Scion forward. Sadly, those of us who MOST liked and appreciated the earlier xB design for what it was no longer have a home. There is no follow-on vehicle that does for us what the box does. That makes me sad. 🙁
And yet another voice was heard:
Tomas, you stated it all. I think after this next 3 year run hopefully people will realize what they lost in the xB classic (and yes everyone should start calling it that).
I think like minded folks like us know what was so great about the idea of the car, the aesthetics aside. I absolutely love the xB classic and I have since I first saw it. Unfortunately for me there was never an opportune time for me to get one. I missed out on a car based on the idea of a ‘City Car’ in every sense of the word.
It was the first time I saw the American car companies “wake up” to what was practical in the rest of the world. I thought this car would start a revolution not only in design but in the idea of what cars in America could be. I am so utterly let down by Scion’s decision to drop the City Car from their line-up.
The new 2008 Scion models look to be great cars at excellent price points. Add in the quality of the design, construction, and customer care, and they will be excellent choices for those whose needs they meet.
For those with serious UUV (Urban Utility Vehicle) “City Car” needs, one can only hope that a true replacement for the earlier Scion xB Classic appears.
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02.08.07
Posted in Personal Topics, Scion at 1:42 am by Tomas
Scion (a marque of Toyota) ended production of two of their models, the xA and the xB (I have one of each) in December of 2006.
Today, 08FEB2007, they brought forth the two new models that will be “replacing” them, the xD and the, uh, “xB.”
My xB and xA are the 28th and 29th vehicles I’ve owned, and the xB is the first one in a long time that genuinely brings a smile to my face when I see it.
To just give the briefest of overviews, the Scion xB is a US version of the Toyota bB Urban Utility Vehicle (UUV) or Tokyo City Car that has been sold there for many years. It is an odd, boxy little vehicle that is ideal for the urban commando, going from place to place in their normal life.
Tiny on the outside, massive amounts of space on the inside, simple but sophisticated, reliable, economical – the ideal car to tuck into the cracks and crevices of city life, always ready to carry five friends, the luggage to the airport, one’s new large-screen TV set, or simply pick up the groceries. A friendly, unabashedly square little box on wheels.
Here’s mine, Vanilla:
The “replacement” for my 2005 Scion xB is, Ta-Da! the 2008 Scion xB, just introduced to the media today (I saw it in Miami in the middle of December)…
The new Scion xB is longer, wider, has a lower roofline, has a MUCH larger engine, and is no longer really a cute, economical “City Car.”
(TOP: 2005 Scion xB, BOTTOM: 2008 Scion xB)
Here are a few responses I wrote at automotive enthusiast sites in response to ongoing discussions of “The Replacements.”
Another forum member posted:
“I think a lot people are missing the point.
The new vehicles are not being designed for current owners. You’ve already bought one, you’re in the family already. The new vehicles are being designed to appeal to people who have different tastes to you. Of course they’re going to look different!
The bottom line is that Scion was intended to bring new people into the Toyota family. By markedly changing the body styles every three years, you are maximising the market you are reaching out to.”
While I understand and at least partly agree with what you are saying, I have a basic problem with it, too…
The xB2 will be bought by a different group of people – those wanting a “longer, lower, wider, more power” vehicle with more mainstream styling. The Scion tC station wagon people.
Those who enjoyed the very strict “form follows function” cubical City Car (Scion xB Classic) don’t necessarily want a foot longer, 4-6 inches wider, 3 inches lower, bigger engined, curvey and stylish station wagon/van/mom-car.
BUT, while Scion is expanding it’s “Introduction to Toyota” market to a new segment, they have made an error, IMHO, in leaving those City Car/UUV people out in the cold: There is NO model in the Scion or Toyota lines in the United States that is at ALL a reasonable step to take when we retire our xB Classics. None.
The City Car or UUV was a bold idea to introduce into the US market, and for a number of reasons it took root and sold MUCH better than anyone at Toyota or Scion ever expected. It fired the imagination by being such an honest and unapologetically “square” car. 🙂
Now that they have introduced that idea to the market, they have totally, absolutely and completely abandoned that niche. There is no vehicle in that segment, now that they have discontinued the xB Classic. This is a perfect opportunity for another manufacturer to import an established City Car into the US. (There are a number of them in other markets.)
If Scion felt the need to ‘expand’ their appeal to a new segment, Scion/Toyota needed to look at the new segment they created in this country, and plan for replacements for the xB Classics that WILL over the years need to be retired. Those folks will be looking for a replacement, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, left in that segment in this country.
I’ll be keeping my little urban box until it’s wheels fall off, I can only hope that when I need it, there will be a replacement. Right now, there is NOT. Nope!
One additional comment about Scion/Toyota abandoning the current xB Classic owners with no replacement vehicle – nothing else on the US market from ANY manufacturer to replace the “form follows function” City Car. The xB Classic was the only vehicle in that niche here (many others on a world-wide basis, but not here), and now there are none.
ANYONE anywhere near the cutting edge of any business KNOWS that retaining customers is much more productive and much less costly than beating the brush for new ones.
Scion was intended to be the “starter brand” for the Toyota family: Get people hooked on the quality and reliability of the Toyota family of cars and they would very likely look there first for their next vehicle.
The plans made public were to have a logical pathway, one car to the next, one brand to the next. Start with a Scion, move to the Toyota, graduate to the Lexus as one moved through life.
Scion’s first models were for the most part a very good starting point, and the model most identified with the Scion brand was that funny little box, the owners of which were nearly fanatical.
Not only was the box an unusual style to see in the US, where so many models look like half-melted bars of soap, it created a market for the Urban Utility Vehicle, the “Tokyo City Car.”
In many parts of the world, compact, space efficient, simple but sophisticated, reliable cars are recognized as the ideal urban vehicle. Not 8,000 pound SUVs or 3/4 ton pickups, or 20 foot long luxury cars, but tiny vehicles with massive interior space – the “tardis” of automobile design.
Anyway, Scion introduced America to the idea of the perfect city car: The Scion xB Classic.
The logical thing to do, now that there was a fanatical following in that niche market, was to expand the market, offer an updated version of that class vehicle in the Scion line – or even in the Toyota line – to give people a place to call ‘home’ when it was time for a new vehicle. If the ‘replacement’ vehicle in that niche was a Toyota, it would be a logical stepping stone for Scion customers to move up to the ‘next level’ of the plan.
Instead, what Scion/Toyota has done is to introduce America to the idea of the City Car, to create a quite viable market for that class of vehicle, to build a strong, vehicle aware body of involved owners, then discontinued not only the model, but the entire class of vehicle in the United States.
Scion/Toyota/Lexus should have established a path for their customers – a reasonable, logical, obvious, step-by-step path to follow for their replacement/upgrade vehicles.
Many of the Scion folk probably plan on keeping their cars for two or three years, then moving on to a new one. If Scion/Toyota/Lexus doesn’t have that next vehicle in their line-up, there is a good chance Toyota could lose that hard-won customer to another manufacturer who does.
Now would be an ideal time for Nissan to bring in their Cube, and for other manufacturers to look at the idea of a City Car for the US. Another space-efficient box on wheels.
It’s not that I’m disappointed with the xB2 – it’s a nice vehicle and I’m sure it will do well, even if it ISN’T a replacement for the xB Classic.
What I’m disappointed with is the planning folks at Scion and Toyota not offering ANY path to ANY vehicle when someone who needs/loves/enjoys/owns the Scion xB City Car needs a new one.
We’ve been abandoned. That is NOT a good feeling to leave one’s customers with…
The xB2 is a well designed answer to the vast majority of complaints people had about the xB Classic. It appears to me to be an easy winner, and I expect it to do quite well for Scion.
The “complaints” about the new xB2 are not coming from the large number of folks who complained about the xB Classic – they, and the new group of potential buyers who didn’t/wouldn’t buy an xB Classic, will be lined up at the dealerships to get one of these tC station wagons.
Yes, I seem to be a complainer, but what I’m complaining about is NOT the new vehicle – it’s a great answer to all the feedback Scion got about the xB Classic – but the fact that there is now nothing on the US market from Scion, Toyota, or anyone else, that offers a rational City Car. With the discontinuance of the xB Classic, that entire niche is now left vacant in the US.
Scion/Toyota should have done some planning for having a vehicle available, when they dropped the xB Classic, in that niche market they created here. They found an enthusiastic, nearly fanatical, bunch of customers in that niche, and it is a shame that they don’t seem to have followed up on retaining them.
That’s my first and largest complaint.
My other complaint is their retaining the xB name for what is not just an different vehicle, but a different vehicle in a totally different class. I will be forever explaining to people, when I say I have an “xB,” that I have the real xB, not the new impostor.
When Vanilla’s little wheels finally fall off, I will need a new vehicle. I’ll want another “City Car.” I hope that someone has one available in the US. It would be very nice if that someone were Toyota.
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